Podcast · Episode 16
The Economics of Hope: African Fintech and Investing for Wider Impact
Tokunboh Ishmael, co-founder of Alitheia Capital, discusses the opportunity in African fintech, productive inclusion, and making investments that generate returns while nourishing communities.
Episode Description
Tokunboh Ishmael is a one-of-a-kind private equity investor. With a stated ambition of deploying capital with 'discipline, fairness, and a gender lens', she currently runs over $100m at Alitheia Capital, for which she is the managing director and co-founder.
In this episode she explains her belief, which is backed by the fund, that investing through a gender lens and for wider economic benefits is not just the right thing to do, it provides better returns.
In her own words, "gender lens investing isn't about lowering the investment bar. It asks whether the market has put the bar in the right place or the wrong place."
We also zoom out and look at Tokunboh's career in finance, which has spanned software writing in London, M&A on Wall Street, fintech in Silicon Valley, and private equity in Lagos. Not only is her perspective unique, but Tokunboh was investing in fintech before anyone was really calling it that.
Here she discusses the evolution of the sector and the shift from financial inclusion (simply providing access to financial tools) to 'productive inclusion', where finance is being embedded in everyday tasks.
This conversation also covers the plethora of opportunities for African fintech founders in stablecoins, embedded finance, SME credit, cross-border payments, savings, B2B payments and asset finance. Tokunboh walks us through some of the most impactful investments that she's made and how they nourished the communities and economies that they emerged from.
Not for the first time, Dragons' Den finds its way into the LFG! podcast. As a former 'Dragon' on Dragons' Den Nigeria, Tokunboh explains her process for figuring out, with mere minutes to do so, if a founder is worth backing.
We finish by discussing the Earthshot Prize, which rewards solutions to the environment's greatest challenges. Tokunboh is a trustee for the awards, alongside the likes of Prince William and Jacinda Ardern. Having seen some of the brightest ideas up close, she finishes by saying that we have reasons to be hopeful.
"Solutions do exist and our job as investors is to get capital to them at the point where proof can become scale."
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This transcript was produced with transcription software and lightly edited for readability. It may contain errors and might not be a word-for-word record of the conversation. If anything looks off, the audio and video are the definitive version.
Hello and welcome to Let Fintech Grow. I'm Ian Horne, and today we're going to be taking another look at African fintech investment. I'm really excited to introduce today's guest, who is an absolute pioneer in fintech investment. Investing through a gender lens, we'll get into that, she's the co-founder and managing director of a Lagos-based private equity firm, Alitheia Capital. What's more, she's a former dragon on Nigeria's Dragons' Den, a trustee for the Earthshot Prize
Oh gosh, you've got all that.
, and a Yale World Fellow. Incredible CV. Tokunboh Ishmael, welcome to LFG. How are you doing today?
I'm doing well, and it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you for inviting me, I look forward to our conversation.
Pleasure to have you here. As I was reading off some of the things you've done, you are clearly one of the coolest people we've had on the show, and one of the coolest people I've spoken to in the industry. So I'm looking forward to getting into so many elements of this conversation. But first, an introduction, I don't always do big intros, but I think some context would be really helpful on who you are and what you do, because you've had a career that spans software writing in London, to M&A on Wall Street, to Silicon Valley fintech, and then Lagos, as I mentioned. Could you give us a quick overview of your career and what you do today? Because that's a hell of a range of things to do.
Yeah, and without going into a full CV, because that can be boring, can't it? But really, looking at the thread: I spent most of my career at the intersection of technology, capital and market failure. I was a software and hardware engineer in the City of London, and that taught me how systems work, systems thinking, and logic, and all of that. Wall Street taught me how capital works, I went there after doing my MBA at London Business School. And while I was on Wall Street was also when the internet boom and bust was taking off, and landing, or crashing, I should say. That found me in Silicon Valley, where I could see how technology could actually reconfigure markets, not just from the micro view I had as an engineer, but really looking at markets and market failures, and how technology is a solution, a tool, and not there for its own sake. So, having looked at those threads, technology, capital and market failure, I found myself in a position where, at the height of the boom and bust, we'd sold an internet company in Silicon Valley, and I became interested in the way market misallocations could be corrected with VC and private equity investment. So I looked to move to the next frontier, which is how I landed in Lagos, Nigeria. It seems quite disparate, but there's a theme: the intersection of technology, capital and market failure, and really leveraging entrepreneurial ingenuity in the markets for opportunity.
It's a hell of a career span, as I was saying, and I think that perspective is really valuable. I feel like you've ticked off almost every box across financial services, at least within a certain corner of it, which is still massive. But fintech, obviously this is a fintech podcast, you were doing fintech probably before people were even calling it fintech, and that's what you were doing before you switched your focus to Africa. What made you realise there was such a huge opportunity out there that you wanted to be involved in?
Well, it was less about fintech for fintech's sake, again, technology as a tool for solutions, as opposed to technology in and of itself. It was more about what infrastructure is missing, and what the insertion of that infrastructure can do to change markets and make those market failures abate. When you're in the UK, the US, the West, you're in a mature market, and often you're looking to optimise something that already exists with technology. When I found myself in Africa, trying to invest in financial services, I realised there were two parallel streams: there were the people who needed finance, and the people who had finance, but there wasn't really anything connecting them. We'd seen mobile access become more broadened, but we hadn't seen financial access going along the same trend. And it was really about seeing how technology could help that. So it wasn't "let's go and find fintech", it was "we need to solve the problem of financial services access, and how people move money around, and what tools and infrastructure can make that happen." That's why I found myself there, A, because I'd had the experience of technology, and B, because I was trying to solve this financial access issue, in the early 2000s, and saying, actually, we can only scale if we use technology. So it was really more about the infrastructure. And around that time, Paga was being started up, and it was a tool that really fit the bill, which is why we found ourselves looking at how the Paga rails could address the problem of ordinary folk in Nigeria and Africa moving money around and unlocking access to financial services.
Let's stop on Paga for a second. What was it doing initially, versus what it does now? How has it evolved over the years?
Paga started out as a payment company: person-to-person, government-to-people (G2P) payments, money transfers within Nigeria, bill payments. I remember the first time, I think it was 2009 or so, when I made a payment from my sofa on a Saturday afternoon, using my phone, to pay for my DStv. It was like, "whoa, what kind of wizardry is this?" Because even though we'd been able to do electronic payments in the West, in Nigeria that was not something you could do. I remember moving to Nigeria and always forgetting to take cash out at the bank physically for the weekend, and finding myself stuck, and here I was, able to transfer money to a service provider, which was very novel at the time. I'm sure people now will think, "what's the big deal?" It was a big deal in 2010, or whenever that was. And now it's moved to more of an infrastructure, a payments engine, providing payments-as-a-service to other providers. So it's gone from just being a direct provider to providing the rails and the infrastructure.
Great stuff. It's funny, my route into fintech has some similarities, in that you just experience things that don't work as well as they should, and you see an obvious opportunity around bringing people into the system. Financial inclusion, I guess, is what we'd say now, but it's just making sure financial tools are accessible. That's certainly what brought my attention to it, albeit I came at it from a financial advice and wealth management perspective. It's been a massive opportunity, and I think once people see it, it's hard to get out of it, right? Once you're in fintech, it's hard to leave.
How to get out of it, yeah. But what I would say is that financial inclusion was kind of like fintech 1.0. Now we're in this era of productive inclusion, where finance is being embedded in everyday tasks, embedded for insurance, embedded for paying workers, embedded for the ability of electronic payments to provide goods and services without people being present. So it's moved from just bringing people into the financial system to enabling them to be productive, to receive payments, to do e-commerce. It's really enabled all of that to flourish.
Absolutely. And I want to talk about, correct me if I'm wrong here, I want to say Alitheia Capital. Is it Alitheia, or Alitheia? I'm obligated to pronounce at least one thing wrong during the podcast.
Alitheia Capital, which is Greek for truth.
So I somehow got it right the first time, and I should have just acted like I was confident. Alitheia Capital, you're a managing partner there, you co-founded it, and you run a $250 million-plus fund, right?
Well, it's an aggregation of a number of funds over time that has given us that AUM. Our largest fund today is just over $100 million in a single pot.
Got you. Still a considerable sum of money. I'd love to learn more about it, but actually, I'd like to start with the headline on your LinkedIn profile, which sums up your approach to investing really neatly. It says: "I've spent two decades proving a single thesis: that capital deployed with discipline, fairness, and a gender lens doesn't just do good, it returns better." Could you talk me through that philosophy, and what you do at Alitheia with it?
I'll begin by saying it's not just about gender, it's about the mispricing and misallocation of capital. The gender gap: female founders are receiving less from the capital stack than their peers, and it's a case of overlooking certain types of companies, founders and sectors. So what that statement means is that we start with an investment discipline, and then we ask whether conventional sourcing is missing good opportunities because these female founders, or female-impacted businesses, are being overlooked, and the sectors in which they operate are being overlooked too. Are there blind spots? It's about the mispricing. If a strong category of business is repeatedly overlooked, that under-allocation can create pricing inefficiency, and that's where we see opportunity. We're not just going down the road everyone is travelling; we're looking on the road less travelled to find these mispriced opportunities. So gender is broader than founder gender or ownership, it's also leadership, workforce, the supply chain, customers, and the kinds of products that need to come to life and meet demand. For example, we have a couple of companies in our portfolio, ReelFruit and Wemy, and they're local manufacturing concerns. Our money has gone in to enable those companies to scale. In ReelFruit's case, the founder, a woman, was not able to raise funding for a long while, until we came along and saw that there were aspects of this value chain that were being overlooked. We supported her to build world-class manufacturing facilities, and she's now exporting products to the UK, US and Europe, and driving import substitution, whereas before, in Nigeria, we would harvest fruit, export it, and reimport it as dried fruit and nuts. She's now doing that processing in-house and tapping into global health trends of healthy snacks, and has created a whole category in itself. So, local manufacturing, which has also gone on to create quality, inclusive jobs and created value through export. That's what we look at: those overlooked opportunities, and we drive for value.
And, I don't know if this is an easy question or a tough one, why is it that these businesses are overlooked?
It is a tough question. In some cases, a lot of capital is looking at larger ticket sizes, or a certain kind of large infrastructure project, or a quick return, the capital is less patient. It's not necessarily looking at sectors like feminine hygiene, or the aggregation of smallholder farmers to create a platform for exports. That takes time. And oftentimes the female founders are not operating in the same spaces as the allocators, so they don't necessarily get the opportunity to present their investment cases, especially when they're much earlier than what people feel safe with. Again, the misperception of risk: where people feel safer putting their money. But we're patient capital, and we're ready to roll up our sleeves and dig in on these kinds of opportunities, also knowing that the opportunity for return is not just about what the company does, but about improving the lives and livelihoods of the tens of thousands of farmers now providing the raw material that goes into these products, and ensuring there are dignified jobs. Because that in itself is a flywheel: it enables people to buy more products themselves, move up the curve, and you begin to have a more inclusive society, where more products are available for the broader population and not just the privileged few.
I love everything about how that sounds. I love that long-term approach, it's always encouraging when you hear people talking about the broader economic impacts of investing beyond simple returns. I think that's where the market eventually needs to go.
Just to your point there, gender lens investing isn't about lowering the investment bar. It asks whether the market has put the bar in the right place or the wrong place, and how we correct for that. So it's not charity; we don't do it because it's fair. It's about ensuring we're not mispricing and missing opportunities.
I definitely think your framing is as an investment opportunity, that's certainly how it comes across. But let's focus on the gender lens for a bit, because this is something you've done for a long time. My understanding is that about a decade ago, you were challenged at an investment forum about the number of female-led businesses you'd invested in, and back then, you hadn't invested in any. Could you talk me through that realisation, and how that moment inspired your investment decisions moving forward?
Yeah. At that point, I'd been in investments and working for over two decades, and I thought I was being fair with all my investments. And then I realised that the absence of discrimination is not necessarily the presence of inclusion, or a broadening of opportunity. So it enabled me to see that intentionality is important, to be able to see overlooked opportunities, and that just being on the same hamster wheel, doing the same transactions as everybody, wasn't necessarily opening me up to the broader opportunity. I'd allowed myself to be blindsided in the same way the majority of the market had been. So I began to look outside existing networks, and more broadly at sectors. Agriculture is the largest employer in Africa, so I began to look at that sector, thinking: what would it look like to solve problems here, and therefore solve problems for more people who themselves become consumers? For the longest time, we'd say the Africa story is a consumer story, and then at some point it's like, well, it's not, because if people aren't getting jobs, they can't become good-quality consumers. So it was about that broader perspective, and saying we need to redesign the process, and ultimately think about a thesis around the overlooked and systemically mispriced universe of opportunities. And we were very clear that this is not CSR.
I want to talk about African fintech on the whole soon, as broad a market as that is, but first, two quick questions. The first: of the investments you've made to date, are there any in particular you're most proud of, that you look back on really fondly?
It's quite interesting, because I've done a number of tech transactions, fintech, embedded tech, and the interesting point is that the one I look most fondly on is not a tech investment, oddly enough. I'm proudest of an agribusiness company called Psaltry, which is processing raw cassava, industrial processing, and producing starch, sorbitol, and other derivatives of cassava. Now, many people don't know that they've all used sorbitol today, and use it daily, because sorbitol is in your toothpaste. Being able to support a founder who, by her own admission, spoke to over a hundred investors until we came along and funded her, and enable her to take her business, which was in a room in a small house, to a world-class manufacturing facility that's also now producing derivatives like glucose, which it's selling into a large market, and driving import substitution, because these products, sorbitol and so on, always had to be imported. Now you can get them locally. She's supplying local manufacturing concerns, and she's exporting cassava flour to the US and Europe, tapping into the global health trend where people are looking for gluten-free products, of which cassava is one. So it's a whole value chain of products and exports she's been enabled to produce. But also, on the back end, it enables tens of thousands of farmers to move from thatched huts to concrete homes. And because we've been intentional about energy transition and climate adaptation as a lever for value creation, she's able not only to light up her factory and keep the processing and productive capacity stable, but she's lighting up over five communities, and improving lives and livelihoods for all these farmers who previously were wasting their yields, they weren't seeing full acquisition of their farm yields. Now they're part of a value chain that's solving somebody's gluten-free problem in the US. That kind of thing excites me. Now, is there tech in there? Absolutely, because you need the tech to connect to the buyers, to the farmers, to enable the payments. This is again where I'm saying you go beyond inclusion, to productive fintech, not just financial inclusion. It's also putting Nigeria on the map as a producer of this cassava derivative. And there's climate adaptation: a whole solar farm has been put in to stabilise the factory, take away the colicky behaviour of bad grid power, and at the same time light up communities. So it's one I'm proud of, because it touches on so many different points, and Psaltry is now processing over 400 tonnes a day, and has that processing capacity. So that's one that really warms my heart.
That's a great example, and really fascinating to see the broader impact of it, not just the scale of the business. That is so cool. Let's look at African fintech generally now, because that's where I want to talk to you. We could talk about a million and one other things, Tokunboh, but I'd like to know, speaking to a European guy who doesn't know a huge amount about African fintech, what would you say are the biggest opportunities you're seeing on the continent right now?
For me, the biggest opportunities are around the infrastructure that will enable us to be not just inclusive but to drive for productivity. We're seeing embedded fintech. MAX, which is one of our companies, is a useful bridge, it provides finance and income-generating assets: green two-, three- and four-wheeler vehicles, mobility, jobs and productivity. It's able to do that because it's got an embedded tech platform that not only provides finance but enables connectivity for all these drivers, and tracking. We're also seeing a lot of fintech opportunities in the SME credit space, and cross-border opportunities. One of the portfolio companies in our broader partnership engagement provides cross-border and is driving for financial services to be as easy as making a phone call, a WhatsApp call, making it easier for e-commerce to happen, for mobility to happen, for people to pay their bills more efficiently and move around for business and the exchange of goods, because now you can have that cross-border transaction happening more easily. So we're seeing a lot of embedded finance, and obviously savings, B2B payments, asset finance, all of these are now readily moving as products into the tech space. And we're investing in markets for us, not just across the whole continent, so we're not saying the fintech opportunities are all over Africa, but we're seeing concentrations in those key markets: Lagos, Johannesburg, Nairobi, across Kenya, and crossing into Zambia, where we have an investment in a leading-edge fintech microfinance bank that is purely tech-driven. So we're seeing this spread into everyday life, where the financial infrastructure has matured and the embedded fintechs are enabling people to live their lives and go about their productive work more efficiently and quickly.
And what would you say are the biggest challenges African fintech founders are facing right now? We've had previous episodes where people have talked about the relative difficulty of raising capital, for instance, but is there anything else we need to know about the continent that would help us understand where a founder's coming from in Africa?
We still need an enabling environment and ease of doing business. Fintech runs on tech, tech runs on digital infrastructure, which runs on power infrastructure, so there's a lot to be done with respect to energy and power infrastructure, what drives and ensures reliability and connectivity: that when a transfer is seen as done on one end, it's seen as completed on the other, and not hung somewhere in between, not in the originator's account and not in the destination account. So people are still dealing with reliability of infrastructure. We're still ensuring that regulation keeps up with innovation, that's an area where we need to see more happening. We have been seeing activity, and regulators trying to keep up; we've seen lots of sandboxes, and moves beyond that. But we're still in the early stages of fintech, I'd say, even though our first investment was back in 2011, because we're still putting in the infrastructure, still looking for reliability and the maturation of the regulatory environment. We still need to see a broadening of financial products, with not everybody focused on transfers and payments, but beginning to look at a real insurtech opportunity that can scale and provide protection, for someone, or a company, that's taken advantage of the free trade continental agreement and wants insurance across the 52 countries on the continent. You often want your insurance to travel with you, and a tech-driven insurance platform can help people have that protection, and better take advantage of the continental agreement. And the continental agreement can only really work if we have robust digital infrastructure for the payment of services. Of course, we need to address challenges around FX transfers, and we're beginning to see solutions coming in that enable speed and efficiency around cross-border FX transactions, using the embedded fintechs.
I've got so little time left for the rest of this interview, so a few quick answers. Firstly, in European fintech there's a lot of conversation right now about stablecoins. Is that something you're tracking closely? Do you think it's going to play a big role in the future of cross-border costs and fintech in Africa?
I certainly think it will play a big role in cross-border costs, bringing them down, and not just costs, but efficiency, reliability, and ensuring trust along the way. But for me, I'm more interested in understanding how an SME can leverage it to push hard on the continental agreement, how they can receive and pay for goods and services, and less about whether it's fashionable. One of the key problems I mentioned is foreign exchange access; there's also the treasury management aspect, where I think stablecoins can play a key role, and efficient cross-border settlements. Any investor like me who's looking at the space is thinking: are the customers real? Is the solution economically superior to what's currently out there? Because people will always find different solutions, and the cost of the solution plays a role. Is the regulatory framework ready for it? Is it something we can see underwriting it? That said, Nigeria is one of the largest players, I think about 60% of sub-Saharan African stablecoin flows are happening through Nigeria. So we're seeing more use cases, and suppliers are beginning to tap into that, for remittances and cross-border payments.
Great stuff. There's another thing I need to talk to you about, as I mentioned at the start, you were a dragon on Dragons' Den Nigeria, which I think is the coolest thing. We actually had an interviewee a few months back who'd been on the other side of it, pitching their fintech to the UK version. So I'd love your thoughts on this. When you're trying to assess a business in a short space of time, with the cameras on, what are you looking for exactly? When people pitch to you, how can they stand out?
You're starting out with the founder: can you work with this founder? But that's not the only thing. Does the founder know the business and the opportunity? Have they done their homework? Do they know the customer from evidence, rather than just placing it in their deck? Does each additional customer make the business stronger, or just bigger, do they understand that? It's a short period of time for you to assess, so you're really starting with the founder, their knowledge, and chemistry, there's got to be some chemistry. And does the founder even understand where they might have some weak spots, founder self-awareness, and how quickly can they learn and adapt in the face of the troubles that will come? Also, understanding whether the founder knows that if their idea isn't the one that works, they need to pivot, and that they're ready for that kind of pivot. You can see that in their ability to take on some of the feedback and interact with the investors on the panel. But for me, I don't confuse a polished pitch, you know, you're coming onto TV, you get a polished pitch, that doesn't necessarily make it a good business. And at the same time, a bad or imperfect pitch is not necessarily a bad business.
It's really fascinating that you're trying to assess the character of the founder as much as anything else. How do you do that? Are you doing it on gut feel? Because I'm guessing you don't have time to research the people coming in.
No, there's a lot of gut feel. You're listening for cues. And I find one of the most interesting parts of the interaction is when the negotiation is going on, because you can see how they're interacting, how they're declining or accepting, and what's motivating them to move one way or the other. That gives you a good sense. It's not complete, but it's a good start.
Great stuff. And last question: you're a trustee for the Earthshot Prize, alongside Prince William and Jacinda Ardern and others. For those unaware, the Earthshot Prize is set up to tackle the world's greatest environmental challenges, and its five stated Earthshots are to protect and restore nature, revive our oceans, clean our air, build a waste-free world, and fix our climate. Now, I've just experienced, and I'm still experiencing, a UK summer with no air conditioning, and I need some hope, Tokunboh. I need some genuine hope, rather than just air con, which is nice but won't cut it in the long term. Can you talk me through one of the ideas you've seen that's been inspiring?
Oh gosh, there are so many. First of all, there is hope. We're not just waiting on magical innovations to appear, solutions are being invented, and many already exist. It's a matter of how we scale or replicate them across different regions. There are a couple that really touch me, and I'm going to get myself into trouble with a number of these innovators now. In the clean air category, a simple solution: Mukuru Clean Stoves, which is saving hundreds of thousands of children from dying from polluted air from wood-burning cookstoves, because their mothers are now swapping to clean cookstoves. It's an area we at Alitheia had already been working in, as long ago as 2012, when we created a clean cook facility. It's a simple solution, but one that's saving lives every day. In the interest of time, I'll mention one other that's close to my heart: Lagos Fashion Week, in the circular economy, and these are the African opportunities; there are global ones I haven't mentioned. Lagos Fashion Week is taking a sector where all of us spend money, and a lot of the time waste money, and looking at how we can be more circular with the clothes we wear, how we can repurpose them, and how runways can promote not just "buy, buy, buy" and waste, but "reuse, reuse, reuse," and clean dyes and new sustainable materials. So those are two, but if you'll permit me one last one, it's a company called Matter, which is creating microfilters for washing machines and other large industrial machines, able to pull out the plastics. I'm probably not describing it well enough, it's a simple innovation, though it's patented, that enables the plastics to be removed from the wash cycle, and is now seeing industrial use with large-scale manufacturers. It's taking plastic out of our water, out of the system, out of our homes. There are so many I could mention. But the key thing is that solutions do exist, and our job as investors is to get capital to them at the point where proof can become scale.
Amazing. So good to finish with some hope, that was really encouraging. I know there's so much more to do, but it's great to hear that. Tokunboh, thank you so much for joining LFG. I've had a lot of fun talking to you and learning about what you do. As I said at the start, what an incredible career. I'm really glad we could share some time with you, and I'd love to have you back on again at some point. So thank you so much. It's been a pleasure.
I'd love to come back. Thank you so much, Ian, I look forward to our follow-up.
Let's make it happen. And to everyone who's been listening in, thank you for joining LFG. I'm Ian Horne, it's been a pleasure, and I'll see you again soon.
