From Fraud Victim to Netflix Host: Cecilie Fjellhøy

Well, thank you for having me.

I do have a customer service voice. When I was told it's like a Disney voice, "Hi everyone, are you okay?", so I feel you.

It's so sad to say, but I think it's made me a better person. I've spoken to my friends and family and they said I'm much more calm. I appreciate things in life a lot more. When you lose everything, as you do when it's romance fraud, you lose a future, you lose a relationship, I lost my flat, I just had a huge financial ramification. So your entire life, you have to rewrite and rethink: what's important in my life? From that perspective, it's been life-changing as a person. And I'm so resilient now, the issues I'm having nowadays, I'm like, "Okay, that's one issue." At a certain point in my life, I had so many issues at the same time, and I think if you can handle that, you can handle setbacks in other ways.

Yeah, it is my baby. After *The Tinder Swindler*, I got so many messages from people across the globe. So my point, why I wanted to make it, was: what can be done? Because with *The Tinder Swindler*, nothing bad about it, but nothing was actually done in the documentary itself to help get that justice. People just saw the injustice, and the public reacted to that injustice. But I was like, "Okay, but these people are now asking me for help." And of course, I'm just one human being. I can't help you with legal fees. When you ask me for help, I can be a listening ear, but that's it. So I thought, what if we could create something to tell even more stories? Because these stories I was receiving were just insane, heartbreaking, worse than mine. So I started pitching, and I've just been so lucky that Netflix wanted to make it. That's such a global streamer, the biggest one, saying, "Okay, let's take a risk on this ex-fraud victim to be able to host this series." For me, it has always been so important to be victim-centred and show the power of victims and what they do when they come together.

Well, it's so interesting with these cases, it is the playbook. It's strategies and methods that they can just use that work on humans, and we don't evolve as quick as tech. So they'll contact the victims on different social media, it doesn't necessarily need to be a dating app; they go on Instagram, send an Instagram message, or Facebook. They're everywhere. They're not just targeting people out of love on dating apps anymore. And then, of course, the relationship moves very quickly. They know they need that intensity, the feeling of that soulmate connection, the twin flame almost, like you met someone who truly understands you. Of course, love-bombing, they'll love you very quickly. But, as I said, in my case, we got together after a month; I love very quickly. And in some cases there are couples who've met each other, you hear that "love at first sight," get married after two months, and they've now been together for 30 years. So when people say that, I'm like, well, the issue is that sometimes it works. Sometimes that is genuine. Maybe it is too quick, but sometimes it's genuine and it's real, which is sad.

I really feel that if someone is telling you that the person you trust most in the world, and love most in the world, is a scammer, that "you're being scammed now", no one will listen to that. No one likes to be told what to do. That's just a fact. It's easy to say, "You should listen," but trust has been moved. Trust hasn't evaporated. So when a bank, or someone, is trying to intervene here, remember that they don't trust you anymore. They don't trust you as a financial institution, or a credit union, or whatever. That trust has been transferred to the criminal. So they're the angel and you're the devil. That's what I try to say, I put up an imagery, because it's so powerful, so you need to be mindful that when you call, you look at yourself as their saviour. And you are. We don't look at you like that. Because that's what happened to me as well, I've been in that situation, so I know what I was thinking, and it's really difficult, because with the stigma of this crime, you're "stupid," right? No one likes to think that we're stupid either. So I remember, when I was on a call and was told by a bank, "We know you're not using your card", I refused. You are so hell-bent on keeping up with that lie, you will never do that on that phone call.

And that question just really hit me, because I was not okay. But every single other question had just been about a transaction. "Do you approve of this transaction? Yes." "Are you the one making this transaction? Yes." But when you have life-changing amounts, do we have a societal issue to actually go deeper into this? Because we know that these funds are not just getting into a black hole. It goes to fund criminal networks. So it's something we all should care about. Are there other ways we can stop this? And, as I say, at the point of transaction, that's when you're in the most heightened state, where "I just want to send it. You're in my way. Leave me alone." So what I'm thinking is: what if the point of transfer is not the best way to intervene? What if you let them make that transfer? That money is lost, but you don't want it to repeat. So what if you then contact the victim a couple of days later, not at the point where this transaction has to be made? Because we are ready when we make the transaction. We know you'll call, we know you're going to try to stop us, because the criminal has already told us. They've groomed us and coerced us, and they know exactly what's going to happen. So it's not a surprise to us that we're getting questions, but we've been told what to say, what to do, and how to act. That's what's sad about it, yes, we're the ones doing it, but as I said, they are the puppet master.

I always say knowledge is power. Understanding why you acted the way you acted, why you did what you did, can really give healing, and can give you a reason. "I acted this way because these methods just work on human beings, and the human reality is that we can meet bad guys who will manipulate, abuse and coerce." And those words are really important, you didn't give your money away; it was stolen. I was abused. I was targeted, because I had the qualities that are needed to become a victim of this: you have to be giving and trusting and loving. These are great qualities, right? If we want to find a new friend in our lives, those are the type of qualities you'd like in a friend. But when you then go public as a victim of this, those qualities are turned and used against you. "Why did you trust? Why did you try to help?" And I'm like, "Why?" It's supposed to be great.

No, for me, I just didn't even, I reflected over this, because everyone talks about the Netflix documentary, and that was in 2022. But the first time, I had my Google search ruined. We all know that when you apply for a job, my Google search was really important to me, what kind of hits do my future employers see? So I ruined my Google search very quickly, in a sense that if people Google me now, it's a lot of articles.

I cried at the first showing, because I felt like my role in that was to be the lover girl who believes in love and Disney love. And how it's edited is just so clever, it's such a beautifully made, awesome documentary. I'm so lucky that both the ones I made were revolutionary; they were really well made. But I have to say, it was just really difficult how it was edited, because that was the first time I saw it. We didn't have any say on how we were portrayed. So when I saw the edit between me being so sad and Pernilla, and Simon travelling across on vacation, that was tough. I just sat under my T-shirt and I couldn't even watch it, and I just cried after, because I felt like I looked so stupid. But that's not to say there's anything wrong, I think it's super important to show that I was in love, I was worried for him, but he had a grand old time. He was a great actor. So I think it was so important for me to get out there that I didn't see him having a good time, he never sent any videos of himself partying it up and having a grand old time. So seeing it back was tough, but I was so prepared, I was so ready, I was quite proud that it was going to be on Netflix. I'd seen the trailer and I was like, "That's amazing." Sometimes I was quite proud of how I was able to convey, I'm not a native English speaker, none of us are, so I'm quite proud of how we were able to be vulnerable and emotional and show hurt, show anger, show love. I had to talk about the good times as well, which is not fun to do. I think we all, if you hate someone, you don't want to talk about the good times. But it was so important to make people feel what I was feeling at the time. So I'm very proud of it. I had the poster up in my bedroom for quite some time, so when I woke up, I looked at it. I know it's weird, but, think about it, it was Netflix's most-viewed documentary of all time. How can you not be proud of something like that? But I have to say, it's everyone coming together to create something like that, amazingly talented people.

Yeah. And when you think about it, how many people would have to go through it like that, where you can see it so visually, that you're being, sorry, fucked over royally, and he's just enjoying it? But that's what I meant about the amazing editing in that documentary, because it was so clever how it was done. And, for example, I've gotten such a great friendship with Pernilla through it as well. So you try to look at the positives of going through something like that. She was the one who went public with me back in 2019, when we didn't know if it was going to be a success or not. To be with another woman who was just like, "I'm doing this with you", because I was supposed to do it by myself. And this is what I mean: we're stronger together, there's power in numbers, to show that this not only happened to me. And of course there've been many more victims after, but that's for another documentary, maybe.

Yes, I truly believe it's possible, of course. I think that if you've decided to go for a frictionless design, and then have to backpedal, that's the issue we're having. When I started designing, it was about as few clicks as possible, the fewest checks. For example, how I ended up in this situation, it wasn't the UX, but the process to remove the need for witnesses when you give a loan. Of course, that makes everything quicker. But then you have the situation where, when you don't have that extra step of witnesses, yes, the banks have been able to give out a lot more loans, so they made money, but then you have the situations that a lot of people end up in. So for me, you need to be able to take a big step back. As I said, look at fraud prevention as customer service. Both when it happens and how it happens has a lot to say.

Yeah. I think there's a lot of talk about AI all the time, and everyone loves to mention it. But for me, in the advocacy space, I just feel that if it can be used to create deepfakes, we need to be able to detect it as well. For me, it won't make sense at all otherwise. It needs to be used for good. We can't just put our hands up and say, "Well, now AI is coming, now we're not going to see what's real and not anymore." I'm like, but what are you going to do then? What are you going to do with victims then? You will still blame us. I was blamed even though I met him in person; I was on a private jet, and I was still told I should never have left, that that was not me. Do you understand? And even then, if AI is going to take over, and then we're not going to know what's real, will you then reimburse the victims? What are you going to do? I just think it's so interesting when I hear this talk about AI, "What are we going to do now?", and I'm like, you'll still blame victims. You'll have us as the scapegoat, who will be left with the devastation and bankruptcy and everything.

By having more diversity and more of my voices in these spaces. Because I feel a lot of the time, at conferences, it's one victim's voice, one victim advocate, and then we've kind of filled that little space. Or on a panel about how we all can work together, nonprofits are part of that. Victims and lived experience is super important in that, in how to create and design better experiences, both pre-fraud, during fraud and after fraud. So I think that's super important, because I feel a lot of the time it's maybe three people from a bank and then maybe one of me, and that's when you feel a bit alone. You feel that you're being unreasonable, or they feel attacked. So, to change it, I don't want to be on the attack, but when you finally get a chance to say your word, that's when you become a bit activistic, because you don't get passes into the boardrooms. They don't speak to people like me. So I think it could be a value to actually bring us more into places where we're not at the time, or look at more of us as experts in this, and not just people to feel sorry for. People come to me and say, "I feel so sorry for you," and then it takes away your expertise, your experience, who you are, what you can bring. So when I speak up, as I said, sometimes it's, "Who are you to speak on this? You don't know the reality", and I'm sure I don't know all of it. But the thing is, I hear so much from the other side, and I'm one voice, so I have to be a bit strict on who I'm speaking on behalf of and what I feel about it.

I am super grateful I've been able to speak at several events and stuff, but it's more that it goes: you're the single victim who gets to tell their story. And it's super important, that human story, but you have so much more to offer at this point in time. I was a victim in 2018, there's been some years, but I will tell my story as long as it's of value and people want it. But I have to end on a positive note, because I know I'm very activist. It's more that there's no reimbursement at all for victims, so they lose their money regardless. But, for example, there was the big Fraud Summit over in Vienna, and there's a new fraud strategy. There is a lot of great work being done. Even in my home country, they've been trying to find best practices in other countries and creating a joint national centre. The silos are being broken down and they're more collaborative. So I want to say that that is great. But I think there's a huge part of it where social media and dating apps are still not taking the same amount of responsibility as, you know, police and banks are doing at this point in time.

There's a lot of interesting stuff. I will continue travelling the world doing my speaking. I have some projects in the works that I can't even speak of, but I feel like I will continue to advocate. I would love to do more with regards to politicians. I continue to help other people with their cases, so many people are coming to me, so I'm trying to find a way to help them bring their voices out in different ways. Not everything needs to be a documentary. So I'm trying to use my voice as the global, I really believe in media, I really believe in journalism, and I believe that's such a great tool to create awareness, very differently from a fraud awareness campaign from a bank. It reaches people in a very different way. So I'm trying to see how I can leverage the position I have with Netflix, and being that voice, are there ways I can talk about other types of fraud and bring other people's voices into that? But I'll see. Everything's a bit up in the air, but that's the thought I'm having. And doing more UX work, I would love to be able to go into more companies and look at their products and see what we can do to create that good friction, and language, and fraud operators. So, good stuff, hopefully.

God, yeah, just remember the human reality when you do your job. I understand it can be upsetting to see the amounts of fraud that are happening, but remember, behind every line is a human, and it's a human story. And remember why you're doing what you're doing in the first place: it's to protect humans from economic crime. So that's it.

Thank you.