Podcast · Episode 1
From Crime to the BBC: Alex Wood on Fraud, Reform, and Redemption
Episode 1 with Alex Wood, star of BBC Radio 4's Scam Secrets, gets us underway.
Episode Description
For episode one of the LFG! podcast, Ian Horne interviews Alex Wood, a former fraudster turned advocate against financial crime. Alex shares his fascinating journey from committing various frauds, including impersonating the Duke of Marlborough and staying at luxury hotels free of charge, to now working to prevent fraud and educate others. Alex talks through the evolution of fraud techniques, the impact of AI, and the emotional toll on victims.
There are also practical tips on staying safe. Alex emphasizes the importance of recognizing red flags and reporting fraud, regardless of the amount lost. Building from Alex's experiences on stage at Money20/20 Europe, the conversation highlights the role of the FinTech community in combating fraud, and also digs into his popular BBC podcast, Scam Secrets.
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This transcript was produced with transcription software and lightly edited for readability. It may contain errors and might not be a word-for-word record of the conversation. If anything looks off, the audio and video are the definitive version.
Hello everyone and welcome to Let Fintech Grow. My name's Ian Horne. I write the newsletter and I'm doing the podcast, and it's a pleasure to be doing this for the first time. There's no script here, so I'm just saying words at the moment. I'm joined by Alex Wood, and what a great guest to get us kicked off. Alex, for those who don't know, spoke at Money20/20 in 2025 and was formerly one of Britain's most notorious fraudsters, who is now on the other side and co-hosts the BBC's *Scam Secrets* podcast, which, if I'm not mistaken, goes out to about three million-plus people, which is really quite incredible. Alex, it's really awesome to kick off this podcast and have you here. We've met several times before, but for everyone listening in, could you tell us a bit about yourself and your story? Because honestly, your story is fascinating and I'm happy to hear it again.
That's really kind, Ian, thank you so much. It's great to be on LFG and great to collaborate. I'm so embarrassed in many ways by my introduction, because being one of the good guys now, to have done some of the things I've done in the past is shameful. But yeah, for many years I was a prolific financial offender, a fraudster, a con man, a scammer. For 25 years I committed some really serious stuff, some of which I was caught for and some of which I wasn't. Everything from VAT fraud to pretending to be the Duke of Marlborough and staying in five-star hotels for seven months for nothing, which, to my mother's horror, ended up all over the newspapers. And then some really highly harmful frauds which ended my criminal career, which were what we call APP fraud, Authorised Push Payment fraud. This is when I was calling up people pretending to be their bank and duping them into making life-changing transfers, you know, millions of pounds at a time, which had the effect of wiping businesses out and people becoming very, very ill.
Yeah, it's fascinating stuff. Obviously some people listening in might be wondering why I'm looking at fraud for the first episode of a fintech podcast. But to my mind, fraud is possibly the biggest topic we've got going on at the moment. With all the need for personalisation, the use of data in the financial system, and also, like you say, things like APP fraud, the speed and convenience that we've built into the financial system, along with AI and deepfakes and all this kind of stuff, has created a real platform for people to scam others. I want to get into the financial side of that pretty soon, because that's the purpose of the podcast. But firstly, there's a part of your story that I'll admit kind of cracks me up, which is the bit about you pretending to be the Duke of Marlborough. Now, I know you were speaking really honestly there, because fraud is not nice, you've done some pretty horrible things to people, let's be honest. But pretending to be the Duke of Marlborough is, in my opinion, kind of funny. That's hilarious to me. So could you tell me a bit more about that experience?
Yeah. Some of the offences have caught the public imagination more than others, and certainly the "fake Duke," as I became known in the press, really did grab people's attention. It was an audacious fraud, pretending to be a member of the aristocracy, checking into Claridge's and the Ritz and the Dorchester. I'd conditioned these people, the receptionists and the managers at these hotels, in advance, by pretending to be a diary secretary, pretending to be this person, and saying, "Don't ask the Duke for any money when he's there. You don't ask royalty for money."
Yeah, I'll be honest, that's a great one to zero in on. Why did you pick the Duke of Marlborough? Is it purely because you'd know the name but wouldn't know who he is?
Yeah, exactly, you wouldn't be able to pick him out in the street. Until recently he's been in the press, but most people wouldn't be able to describe him. It's not like checking in as Prince William, of course, I'm not Prince William. But if you carry yourself in a certain way, speak in a certain way, dress reasonably smartly, you can convince people. It's almost like method acting. You know, people like De Niro and Al Pacino and Marlon Brando, they become the role, they live and breathe that role. So it was very much like that, and I convinced myself that I was this member of the aristocracy.
How much did you lean into it? Obviously those things happen, you didn't request that, it just happened, but did you ever, in a cocky moment, try it on a bit and push it further?
Yeah, there were some times when I overdid it on the services, ordering caviar and champagne for other people and so on, just pushing it. And that is what, in the end, unravelled the offence, because I overspent the agreed amount of extras that I could bill back to the suite. So then they asked for a card, and then I was like, "Right." So I tried to get out the fire escape, and then the police were called, and that's how I got apprehended.
No, I'm fascinated by it. Obviously I find it hard to conceal a smirk when you're talking about that. I do not think that fraud is good, but it is quite funny. Anyway, going on to the fintech side of this, that's what I'm here to do. I'd love to know more about the work you're doing now, because you've served time and you've essentially started working with financial companies to try and prevent fraud and stop the same things happening that you were once perpetrating. What are the biggest trends that you see now, and what should people be concerned about?
Well, there are a few, and AI is certainly central to a lot of it. We're seeing a massive ramping up in the sophistication of fraud attacks. Just to give you some numbers: fraud now accounts for 44% of all reported crime, it's gone up; last year it was 41%, it's now 44%. The police give it something like between one and two percent of the overall budget, so even though it's the most reported crime, it gets a very, very small budget to detect and investigate.
Yeah. How do you protect against all this stuff? Because, like you say, with the rise of AI and deepfakes, you mentioned a voice recording. You're public speaking, you do your podcast, I've done lots of podcasts; we'd be really easy to deepfake. If someone really wanted to, how do you protect against that?
It's very, very difficult. Deepfakes can now be deployed live. There are a lot of companies that can detect them, and they do great work, they can detect deepfake clones which are hosted on LinkedIn or Instagram, and they can say to the providers or the platforms, "This is a deepfake, take it down." But when it's being deployed live over a phone line or over a WhatsApp chat, if we think of a romance scam, and you think you're talking to somebody in Asia but you're talking to somebody in West Africa, and they're defrauding you, but you're having a video call and you can see them and they're moving live and their lips are moving, you can hear their voice, it's not like two years ago, when this sort of tech was first starting to be used, when Brad Pitt would appear on the screen and say, "Sorry, I've got reception problems, but you've seen my face, let's just chat on audio, you know it's me." Now it can be done live, and it's perfect, and it's getting better.
Are there any, obviously there are lots of different ways to defraud people now, and as you say, it's quicker than ever, easier to research than ever, and I think there's a lot of creativity involved, let's be honest. Are there any scams that you see right now that, thinking back to your past, make you think, "Yeah, that was pretty good, I wish I'd been smart enough to think of that one"?
There are a few. I have to wind back the clock and forget that I'm rehabilitated, but no, there are a couple that I see. Of course, everyone wants to have been the Wolf of Wall Street or Frank Abagnale. But if we look at the Arup fraud, this big multinational company which was defrauded out of their Hong Kong office, where I think one of the accounts controllers was on a call with who he thought were several members of his executive committee. This was a Teams call, and he could see everyone and they were talking, and he knew them. I think they were going through an acquisition at the time, and the CEO said to the accounts guy, "While we're all on this call, why don't you execute the final payment, and we can raise a cup of coffee and celebrate that we've completed the deal." And he was like, "Yeah, I'll stick it through." I think the CEO purportedly said, "I'll just stick the account details in the chat, there you are, transfer 25 million dollars to that account." And he did it. And it turned out that everyone on the call was a deepfake clone.
You've obviously gone on a journey with this personally, because you were defrauding people for a long time, and now you're protecting people against it. Like you say, you look at it differently now. This isn't even a tech question, what's your personal journey been like with that? How do you look back on the things that you did in the past now?
I look back at a different character. I was able to justify my actions to myself in a completely different way. I had a different sort of conscience matrix, if you like, and a different morality. Looking back, I recognise that I was displaying a lot of the traits of a typical psychopath, displaying antisocial personality disorder. I had no empathy and I was acting in a grandiose way. If you think of the Duke of Marlborough offences, that is grandiosity beyond any measure. I had absolutely no empathy, no remorse. I was totally unstoppable.
Well, I'm one step ahead of you, I've spent my money wastefully, so it's fine. It's a successful strategy: can't be defrauded, there's nothing to defraud.
That's what everyone says.
Of course they do. No one goes on a podcast and says, "Yeah, I'm actually kind of minted." That would probably not be the way to go. A more positive memory, perhaps, well, definitely, I would assume, is last year, when you joined us at Money20/20. I'm no longer there, but when I was putting that agenda together and the guys at GBG said they could get you along, I was like, "This is great." As a content programmer, you really hope to come across people who have a fascinating story to tell, especially when it's a personal story as well as an industry story. So how was it for you heading to that event? And I'd like to know a bit about your, I'm guessing this was your first deep immersion in the fintech community. What kind of conversations were you having there?
Prior to Money20/20 last year, I'd done, for two years, I think, I'd spoken for banks, mostly banks, government events, counter-fraud events, law enforcement events and so on. So this was different, because it was all fintech. I think the only company I'd worked with before that was there was Mastercard, and GBG. To meet all these other incredible organisations was amazing. To see demonstrations of the latest disruptive tech was incredible, the latest in transaction monitoring, for example.
Yeah, around that kind of number.
Just nuts. And multiple halls, really, really impressive. But my highlight was getting a hat from Trustfull, you know this company Trustfull. I'm not plugging them, I'm just saying how cool that hat was. They gave me a free hat which said, well, it said "fuck fraud" on it.
They gave you a free hat. So the hat merchandise works, is what you're saying.
We might have to bleep that bit, but it said "fuck fraud," and I was like, "That's awesome, that's really cool." So I was walking around the place with this expletive hat, which I've still got. But it's a really cool networking event, and it's led to a lot of work, and I'm really grateful to have been able to do that. Thanks to you for inviting me along, it was a great experience, great fun.
It was great to have you there. Let's look at your BBC podcast, that's a very, very cool thing. I can imagine there was probably a point when you were in jail and you wouldn't have imagined that, a few years down the line, you'd be broadcasting on the BBC. It'd be great to know, firstly, what some of the most interesting things are that you've tackled there, so people listening to this can turn over. And this being the first podcast, I'd like to lend some of my zero subscribers to your three-million-plus-listens podcast. So what's the most interesting thing you've talked about so far?
Well, the first thing, you're right, is that I could never have imagined doing anything with the BBC. They covered the frauds that I used to do; they reported on my prison sentences. I remember one time I almost became a celebrity at HMP Wandsworth because I was on the BBC Six O'Clock News on consecutive nights, a terrible, terrible accolade. My involvement had to be signed off by the Director-General, because of the potential for reputational harm. If it turned out that I was still a fraudster and this was all a big mask, it could be very damaging for the BBC, and they obviously don't need any more heat right now. But it was signed off, and we were commissioned for a whole load of episodes, and we've just been given another 26 episodes, which is amazing.
For sure. I think I'll win out of that arrangement, but still. The social media side, though, that's actually terrifying. I hadn't really been thinking about that. Obviously LinkedIn is where I do most of my social stuff, because I'm not really massive on Instagram and so on. But what is going on there? Is it, again, impersonations of people?
Yeah, a lot of impersonation, and a lot of really cruel stuff as well. There was a fraud we profiled where this lady played the oboe or the clarinet, and she'd put on her Facebook that she's in the local orchestra, really looking forward to the concert at the weekend and doing the rehearsals. She had an open profile, so fraudsters were able to find her posts. They contacted her directly and said, "I don't know if this is of interest to you, my dad has just died, he had a beautiful clarinet, it was 100 years old, really valuable, and I don't know what to do with it. I'm happy to donate it. I was going to give it to a charity, but then I came across your post about playing at this concert, so I'd like to give it to you."
Right.
So you'd never think of that, would you? It's the really dark side of fraud. You're thinking of people trying to do authorised push payment frauds and pretending to be a Nigerian prince, but this stuff is quite sinister. So we advise, in that case: if you've received a request or an offer like that out of the blue that's too good to be true, it probably is. Maybe ask to meet up and look at the clarinet. And when people do that, of course, the trail goes dead straight away. So yeah, we cover everything from multi-million-pound losses down to somebody being defrauded of a clarinet.
It's interesting, because you kind of draw a comparison between a crime with a person we can identify as a victim, and the more faceless-feeling crimes, which obviously do have a victim, but we kind of convince ourselves that they don't. When it comes to your podcast, how is it talking to the people who've been victims of these crimes? And what advice do you have for them? Because I think there's a sense of shame that comes with being defrauded and scammed. You can be very intelligent and still be scammed, but that's not how you feel in the moment.
Totally. If people listen to the show, so many of the victims are embarrassed, and it's often hard to convince victims to come on, because they feel duped, they feel like they've been stupid, like maybe it's their fault a little bit. You often see this with romance fraud, people think they can't report it or talk about it, because not only have they been defrauded, they're also ashamed to admit it, because it's embarrassing talking about relationships. So that's one of the reasons there's massive underreporting of fraud in the UK. We estimate, I'll give you another figure, that 83% of fraud is never reported. So only 17% is reported. And despite that massive underreporting, fraud still accounts for 44% of all reported crimes. So the real number is probably more like 95% of all crime being fraud.
Wow. I'm not one to victim-blame, but that's pretty dubious.
But then equally, if somebody gets defrauded of a few quid and it's half their week's jobseeker's allowance or something, that can be devastating. So it's hard to equate values, really.
For sure. I've got one last question for you, and that's: to your knowledge, have you ever been scammed or defrauded yourself?
Yes, I have. There was always the risk, with doing the APP fraud, that we'd be defrauded by the money launderers. It tends not to happen, because money launderers always want the next job, and the next job, so if you defraud a fraudster, you're not going to get the next job, they're going to use another gang. But we had a couple of instances where somebody might have nicked 10,000 quid. My co-defendant was in charge of the money-laundering operation, he was Pakistani, and all the money launderers were based out of Pakistan and Dubai. Somebody once stole 10,000 quid from us in London, and my co-defendant located his brother in Pakistan and literally kidnapped him until the money had been returned. So that was dealt with in a very ruthless way.
That's painful. No!
I thought, "You know what, somebody manages to defraud me, good luck to them." But yeah, I raised a ticket with eBay, reported it, but that was it. 500 quid.
And nothing back?
Nothing back. And I've still got the six cup holders. It's not even the cups, it's just the holder that clips onto the side of the thing.
That's amazing. Well, Alex, thank you for your time. It's been so interesting talking to you about all of this. I know your story, but it was great to dive into it in more detail. The ramifications for fintech are pretty obvious, but it's always just interesting to be on the other side of the fence and see inside the mind of someone who's defrauded people, but has also done the other side. So, Alex, I'll be tuning into your podcast for sure. It's been great having you on mine.
*Scam Secrets*. Thank you, man.
To everyone listening, this has been LFG, Let Fintech Grow. I've been Ian Horne, that's been Alex Wood, and I'll be back again soon.